So, you didn’t pick the trombone?

Well, when I was six he had bought me a cello. I didn’t show too much interest in the cello.

That’s interesting because I think David Baker, who played trombone and switched over to cello, said the positions are somehow relatable, and that middle sound.

Yes, the trombone and cello are very similar. But I never really… my concept of string playing never really developed. My wife is a better string player than I am. She can play the violin; she had played the violin in school, and guitar, and bass even. My father was going to give her all the basses when he passed because he wasn’t going to leave them to me. She was good with strings. 602 [High Street] was a very nice experience for me. The people who came through there were really stars… I was a kid. They looked at me as Brother and Ella’s son. Dizzy Gillespie would come through, Rudy [Williams] would come through, Redd Foxx… Redd Foxx would sleep on our couch; that was before he was making any really big money. My mother let him crash at the pad so he wouldn’t have to pay for a hotel. The only hotel he could stay in at that particular time was the Coleman Hotel.^[5] It was owned by the Coleman Brothers, a gospel group. They had their own hotel; a black family had their own hotel, their own record company, their own radio station. They were very interesting. Any entertainers who came to town would stay at the Coleman Hotel. A lot of my friends in middle school knew I was into music; especially when I got the trombone they knew I was kind of serious. They said: “Oh, you’ll automatically make it.” They knew my mother and father knew everybody. But that was not the case. That had nothing to do with it. None of the stars that ever came to my house had anything to do with my development. I developed totally on my own through my own resources from beginning to end. You would have thought a lot of people would think… you take somebody like Natalie Cole, because Nat was her father, that she would make it, but I’m sure Natalie had to show her own wares to get where she went. You can’t ride somebody’s shoulders; you’ve got to have your own talent.

Do you think your mother’s modern sensibility affected how you understood what music could be?

I think her enthusiasm for me to pursue my dream helped me believe in myself. She was great. She was a no-nonsense kind of person. I don’t think she would lead me on if she didn’t think that I had talent. She was enthusiastic; she let me try to develop. And so was my father. He definitely tried to put me on the right track. He was about no tricks and no easy way in. He was a no-shortcuts guy. You know what I’m talking about? Although one of his buddies got me my first gig, it had nothing to do with his influence. His buddy liked my enthusiasm and knew I wanted to play. His buddy was Leon Eason, a big trumpet player from Newark. As a matter of fact, we used to call him “Little Pops” because he played like Louis Armstrong. He was so much like Louis. Really. My father got to know him when he was at his peak, because unfortunately, he was an alcoholic. And he had lots of good books, but he had problems with life. He could never reach the stardom part. But he still maintained his musicianship till the end. He was a great inspiration to me. I knew how great he was, and he knew I was into a more modern type of venue. He saw my seriousness. A lot of times he put me on a gig and he’d be at the bar drinking; not that he couldn’t play, but I’ll never forget him — he gave me more money than I ever got in my life. The first gig I was eighteen or something. I think he gave me $35… most guys were getting like $7 and $10. [laughs]

what happened with the beauty shop and the community on High Street?

My mother and father decided; my father developed a group in Newark, it became a house band at Club 83, it was called Club Len & Len. It was organized by some professional Negro baseball players.

From the Eagles?

I don’t remember exactly. Len Hooper. They were all professional ballplayers. I think it was a Negro team. They got this club together. My father held a gig there for about eight or nine years. For some reason my father wanted to go back to Florida. For one thing, the house was getting to be unmanageable — the taxes and stuff like that. My father and mother felt like it might be a little easier in Florida. So they sold the house. This was around 1955 or 1956.^[6]